Would an Elise be a huge downgrade from a C6 Corvette?

"marshknute" (marshknute) 02/07/2020 at 11:17 • Filed to: None

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Ok my lovelies, it’s time for Part II of “marshknute can’t stop thinking about underpowered track cars.” Last time it was a base 987.2 Cayman. Now it’s a Lotus Elise!

As a refresher, I do HPDE with the Porsche Club, and my run group has everything from Cayman’s to GT3 RS’s. My 430hp Corvette leaves me near the bottom-middle of the pack. It’s slow in the corners, but holds its own on the straights. Annoyingly, I burn through a set of brake pads after just two weekends, which is getting old quickly.

I hadn’t checked Elise prices until now, but they’re CHEAP. Like $30K cheap. So, if the whole point of the Cayman was to get a lighter/nimbler track car that was easier on consumables, shouldn’t the Elise be an even better option? In terms of power-to-weight, the Elise slots perfectly between the base Cayman and Cayman S. Tires and brake pads cost half as much as they do on the Corvette, and at nearly half the curb weight, surely they’ll last nearly twice as long.

Base C6 Corvette

6.2L V8

430 hp / 424 lb-ft

3217 lbs

Brakes the size of kiwis that need new pads after just two track weekends

Lotus Elise

1.8L I4

190 hp / 138 lb-ft

1975 lbs

An entire car the size of a kiwi

Pros : Cheap AF to own, unmatched handling, looks badass, holds its value.

Cons : Snap oversteer, less power than a pencil sharpener, as comfortable as falling down a flight of stairs, does it even have a radio???

What say you, Oppo?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:21

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It must be nice to be able to casually talk about spending $30k on a vehicle.

Tripper > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:23

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The Elise would be a lot harder to live with everyday, but I prefer the drive to the C6. The Elise is so immersive because you have to climb into it, the engine just pours heat over your back and the cockpit just says “rip it”.

C6 is way better value/use for the $ I just love the Elise.

For Sweden > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/07/2020 at 11:23

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It’s easy when you realize that money is a arbitrary concept that is created from nothing but hopes and dreams

JustAnotherG6 > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:24

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Personally, I could go either way. The Lotus is going to be a better track toy, the Vette a better daily. Since I don’t live any closer than a several hour drive from any track I’d go with the Vette.

benn454 > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:24

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 Why not upgrade the brakes on the C6? Would be a lot cheaper than 30k.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:24

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I know nothing, but can offer an opinion.

I would think that the Elise would be a better choice for HPDE. I look at the Corvette as a m achet e, and the Elise as a scalpel. The Lotus is a far better handler, which means you can carry more speed into the turns, and not need to use the brakes as much to scrub speed, meaning less wear/tear on the brakes (in theory anyway)

Tripper > For Sweden 02/07/2020 at 11:25

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Yeah, when you get right down to it we’re really just exchanging minutes/hours/days of freedom for things.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:26

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Any body damage to an Elise will not be cheap AF to repair...

They’ve been $30k forever. =)

https://dougdemuro.kinja.com/i-owned-a-lotus-elise-for-free-and-so-can-you-1445088457

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > For Sweden 02/07/2020 at 11:29

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Weird, ‘cause I think mine comes from the “specially configured” photocopier I pay extra to use down at Kinko’s....

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:30

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V8 Miata.

This is the way.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/07/2020 at 11:34

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at some point everyone realizes that a $2000 Miata with an ebay turbo kit will do the job better anyways

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:35

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I would give a kidney to own an Elise. So, that one. The Corvette is fine but isn’t 1/10th the immersive experience the Elise is. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Tripper 02/07/2020 at 11:36

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months/years

ClassicDatsunDebate > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:36

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It will be an education in inertia conservation.

Thomas Donohue > For Sweden 02/07/2020 at 11:36

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Additionally, when it runs out you can still have thoughts and prayers.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast 02/07/2020 at 11:37

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Can you get one for $30k?

loki03xlh > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:37

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I’d stick with the ‘vette.  It’s a Chevy.  If it breaks, you fix it, cheap. You can make it faster if you desire.

smobgirl > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/07/2020 at 11:37

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The good thing about an Elise is that, unless you crash it, it’ll still be worth $30k when you decide to sell it. So if you consider it a temporary purchase it’s probably a better choice than plenty of cheaper vehicles.

(But yeah, I can’t even scrounge up $5k for a work-dedicates vehicle so I totally understand)

B_dol > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:38

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Having driven both cars in question (well, a C6 Z06), Lotus hands down. It is an effin’ RIOT and by far the best driving experience that can be had with cheap consumables.

Body work... not so much.

Thomas Donohue > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:39

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While the tires and brakes might be cheaper, what about the rest of the parts?  I’m guessing if they aren’t shared Toyota parts, things might be pricey.

ClassicDatsunDebate > For Sweden 02/07/2020 at 11:39

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...and I’ve found that the less you have to worry about it,  the easier you buy into that concept.

Tripper > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/07/2020 at 11:42

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the farther you go the worse it seems!

Stef Schrader > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:44

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UPGRAYEDD (two Ds for a double-dose of winning, in this case).

Upgrade upgrade upgrade upgrade. I love Elises so much, and if you don’t mind a salvage title, these things are even cheaper. Bumpers and other bits for them take so long to get here from the U.K. and are so expensive accordingly that these can be totaled out for completely non-structural reasons. I have a buddy selling his for $22K and it’s fun as hell.

The first track car I rode in was an Elise, so I may be biased, but the low weight definitely makes up for the lower power. UPGRADE! I love the Elise so much. Also, the Exige was the first manual car I drove without stalling. I’m just saying.

UPGRADE!

WRXforScience > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 11:49

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The Elise is about as fast in a straight as the Base Cayman you were looking at (maybe a little slower actually). The main downsides to an Elise are: 1) the clam shell is a single piece and costs thousands ($3k-$9k depending on authenticity and availability) of dollars to replace if damaged and minor damages can total the car, 2) most have an open diff that’s frustrating when trying to accelerate out of corners and 3) they are a pain to get into and out of (and if you have a passenger you will be touching shoulders) .

Everything is going to be a big straight line speed downgrade from your Vette, how much you’re willing to deal with is up to you.

I have a friend who bough an Elise 4 years ago with the idea to track it and enjoy it, he upgraded the oil pan and took it to the track just a couple of times before he couldn’t stomach the risk and subsequent reduced speed/enthusiasm on track. He even confessed that he should have gotten an 86 (the rest of us have BRZ/FRS and he’s the oddball with a Lexus IS300 and the Lotus). The on the track, the Elise accelerated only marginally faster than the stock 86's and pretty much the same as the bolt-on 86's (same as a base Cayman/Boxster). He admitted that with an FRS/BRZ he could have tracked the car without worrying about it and had more fun.

The nice thing is that the Elise have quit depreciating and you can get all of your purchase price back when you’re done with them, so they are a very low risk proposition as long as you don’t damage the clam shell (you could also get a salvage/rebuilt title where the clam shell was already damaged and replaced and the value was already lost).

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/07/2020 at 11:50

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Is this self-loathing or criticism of the author for implying he can afford a mid-trim Camry?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Tripper 02/07/2020 at 11:51

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Ha - because it is! Finding contentment, regardless of your possessions, is really where it’s at...

There’s a possibility that I’ll need to be looking for a new job in a few months (my company is in a transition period, looking for a new funding partner). If this job goes away, and there’s another similar job available that’s easy and painless to slide into, I’ll probably take that path (with the long-term financial security of my family in mind), but if not, I think I’m going to take some time to reassess where I’m at and what I want my next decade of work to look like. I’ve said it out loud before: I don’t see myself doing the same work as I’m doing now when I’m 50.

But if it’s not this, then what?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 02/07/2020 at 11:54

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Tripper > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/07/2020 at 12:00

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It’s really tough when you throw a family into the mix. I mean it isn’t because you know what you have to do, but knowing with certainty doesn’t always make things easier.

I just went through a bunch of interviews and have decided to stay where I am. All the things I like to do pay dirt money. Wood working, cars... I hate computers but that skill set comes easily to me and is lucrative...So hear I am.

My wife is in in a transitional period where shes is approaching completion of a long awaited certification. If she decides to be the primary bread winner I will be the newest owner/e mployee of a local euro-classics shop or wood shop.

My bird IS the word > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 12:04

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Its certainly more exotic. I think this is a case of drive it before you buy it though.

Long_Voyager94 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/07/2020 at 12:13

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Miata can be had for what $3k?

LS can be had on CL for around $1k?

+$2500 for the LS swap kit.

So yes, you can build one for under $10k.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 12:15

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The only experience I can speak from is Forza, but the Elise was one of my favourite ‘track cars’ for when I was sick of losing and wanted to put the SMACKDOWN on the computer. Very intuitive and rotated exactly when I wanted it to (until I gave it 700+hp).

As for real life I think the Elise is almost intended to be a track toy. As others have said it will hold its value ridiculously well. I have also heard they are just a joy to drive on top of being a capable track machine, and as you mentioned consumables would be lesser which means more money for.....consumables. A potential downside may be less room for said consumables though, not sure if you bring a spare set of wheels but....I don’t know where those would fit on an Elise 

The uninitiated might also think your Elise is more expensive than most of the other stuff at the Porsche track day, if you’re into that kind of thing.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 02/07/2020 at 12:18

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Me in Forza in my 500+hp FWD  Suzuki Liana. I call her David, her motto is rubbin is racing 

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Tripper 02/07/2020 at 12:19

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Most of us are, you forget about the people who will make more in interest today than some of us here will make in our lifetimes. A billion dollars is an obscene amount of money, regardless of your opinions on the ethics of acquiring and having that much dough 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Long_Voyager94 02/07/2020 at 12:25

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Oh yeah, sure. Was thinking specifically about the Flyin’ Miata one.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Tripper 02/07/2020 at 12:31

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Thankfully, we’re in a really solid place financially and I’m not a sole earner, so I’ve got some flexibility. Unfortunately, Mrs. addiction’s job is not exactly a sure thing for the next decade, either (feels solid enough right now, though).

My degree is in graphic design and I love doing logos for small business and organizations, but yeah... I’m totally with you on the “easy to me and lucrative (so far)“ front.

Haha - good luck with that! It’s always good to have a dream.

marshknute > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/07/2020 at 12:56

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I’d be trading in the Corvette, so more like having $10K to spend on a vehicle. For reference, the average used car sells for $20,200.

The average new car $36,700 which is 22% more than a used Elise.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > WRXforScience 02/07/2020 at 13:13

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This is great relevant advice. Sounds like if the Elise was just for fun runaround duty then it would be a great depreciation-free car to enjoy the hell out of. But with the risks involved with track driving and the very real possibility of damage to the clamshell and/or body parts maybe it’s not the best choice (regardless of speed considerations) and there are equally fast (/slow?) options to be had with lower risk elsewhere.

Future next gen S2000 owner > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 13:13

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Just different. You won’t regret the Elise.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > loki03xlh 02/07/2020 at 13:16

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Or if you don’t care about straightline speed that much - go with something else that isn’t such at risk of being written off even in a minor track incident. If it’s only as fast and agile as a a modded FR-S or base Cayman, but a lot more expensive to repair in case of accident I wouldn’t take the risk. As a fun, exotic, weekend car - sure. For a track weapon - no (although, ironically that is what it is best at, if money were no issue). 

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/07/2020 at 13:21

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I think it just depends on how much polish you want

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-mazda-mx-5-miata-29/

Tripper > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 02/07/2020 at 13:22

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Yeah I don’t do billions in that I can’t comprehend that sort of money, haha. On the other side of the coin there are people trading the same amounts of time to barely live, and some times not make it... I can’t comprehend that either. I consider myself pretty damn lucky to live on the low side of the middle, haha .

WRXforScience > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 02/07/2020 at 13:27

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I’ve heard horror stories of people cracking the clam shell on parking spot stops. They do get a lot of attention, so if you want the supercar experience for dirt cheap they’re a great option.  

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 13:28

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You’ve learned one of the fundamental laws of club racing: How fast you’re going around the track isn’t related to how much fun you’re having (that’s a function of quality and quantity of competition on your class and/or run group), but how fast you’re going around the track is directly related to how much money you’re spending to do so. The experienced road racer chooses cars and classes based on running costs, of which consumables and hours between rebuilds and costs of those rebuilds of the power train are the biggest factors.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Tripper 02/07/2020 at 13:35

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Agreed, especially after travelling abroad. Even without going to genuinely world vision stylez poor places, it really makes you realize even lower middle class at home is being a very- rich- man elsewhere (the privilege involved in being able to travel aside) 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast 02/07/2020 at 14:10

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Nice!

nerd_racing > Long_Voyager94 02/07/2020 at 14:58

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nerd_racing > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 15:17

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Elise is way too big. Gotta go Autozam. If 30k is eff it money, 15-18k is nothing

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 15:18

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Seems like a lateral move. Not better not worse, just different. 

Old-Busted-Hotness > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 15:22

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Maybe you wanna check out today’s NPOCP. 

lxarlo > For Sweden 02/07/2020 at 17:21

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Craigslist, here I come.

SmugAardvark > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 18:10

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If it’s specifically a track vehicle, I say go for it. It isn’t like the Elise is going to depreciate much further. So drive it for a year or two, and if you don’t like it as much as the C6, you can pick up another Corvette that will have lost even more value.

rearwheelhorse > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/07/2020 at 18:44

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Step one: don’t have kids

Step two: major in literally any STEM degree

rearwheelhorse > Long_Voyager94 02/07/2020 at 18:48

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Lmfao any LS swap that isn't a total pile of shit costs more than $10k all in. Bring $15-20k before you even think of LS swapping a Miata for track use.

Variance > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 18:49

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I’ve owned my Elise for around 8 years, so feel free to ask if you have any questions (I haven’t tracked mine, though).

Additionally, if you are by any chance ever in SE Michigan, I’d be willing to let you take it for a spin.

Odddoylerules > smobgirl 02/07/2020 at 18:53

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As a long time hpde and club corner worker at multiple racetracks, its odds of wrecking are higher than average.  They just.....wreck. 

Odddoylerules > Stef Schrader 02/07/2020 at 19:00

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Sounds like the car i saw lose it at the end of a track day at Pacific. Big aero, big tire, big turbo, carbon and race bits all over. Took out the exit cone at 2, snapped into a tank slapper from clipping grass on exit, rolled downhill 500 feet into 3a. As cool as they are, with too much grip and power they are twichy death traps. Mind you i love em.... Just the 200hp stockish version lol

Odddoylerules > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 02/07/2020 at 19:01

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Word.  This guy gets it.

SoonerAviator > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 20:27

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For that price you could buy a kit from Factory Five for the Daytona Coupe or AC  Cobra and have the best of both worlds.

TheIndividualist > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 23:13

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So in my opinion, you are better off getting a new MX5. The risk of driving a car on the track that can get totaled very easily would definitely scare me into having less fun. If cost efficiency is one of your concerns,  a Lotus isn't a good choice. 

wkiernan > marshknute 02/07/2020 at 23:30

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My guess is that any Elise, being made out of only the rarest isotopes of Unobtanium, will cost you at least as much to own and run as your very attractive C6. I want an Elise, though, even though I can’t afford one. I’ve always wanted an Elise from the first time I laid eyes on one.

When I come off I-375 at the MLK exit, about 150 feet before I get to the light at MLK there’s the alley, which takes me past an exotic-car shop on my way to the back side of the company parking lot. Oh boy, you should see the stuff I’ve seen driving through that alley! A Miura up on a lift inside; a sky-blue Ferrari Pininfarina coupe circa ‘62 (drooool); the other day a ‘66 VW “1300" Beetle; Porsches Porsches Porsches, more Porsches than you can shake a stick at, including even a few 356s and race cars, parked along the alley waiting for an oil change.

Today, a sweet Elise! I had to stop and stare for a few seconds, leading to this internal colloquy.

right lobe (dominant in emotion, facial expression): Ooh I can afford this.

left lobe (superior at reason and logic): We can’t afford this.

right lobe: Sorry. No offense. We . We can afford this. I mean, just look at it !

left lobe: We can’t afford this. Even your side can do basic arithmetic.

right lobe: BUT I WANT IT.

Also a first-gen Boxster, I’ve seen it for a couple days, with “for sale” in chalk marker on the window. How much do you think one of those is worth?

So anyway, my advice to you is BUY BUY BUY. If you don’t want to race it, you can just daily-drive it, to buy groceries and stuff.

Steve in Manhattan > marshknute 02/08/2020 at 06:20

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If you can get out of the Lotus without looking like a klutz, you have my blessing.

Long_Voyager94 > rearwheelhorse 02/10/2020 at 07:06

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Oh bullshit. It’ll cost you $15-20k, if you go crate everything and are too lazy to put it together yourself.

rearwheelhorse > Long_Voyager94 02/10/2020 at 08:29

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Yeah and you’ll have a 1992 Miata on a stock suspension and brakes. Aka a fucking death trap.

Nobody just slaps a motor in there and calls it a day because that’s insane even by junker standards. You’re looking at $5-8k AT LEAST in freshing suspension and redoing the brakes.

I own two Miatas and follow every single Miata group on Facebook. The #1 post that comes across my feed (aside from what oil to use) is "holy shit this engine swap isn't even halfway done and I blew through my budget"

Long_Voyager94 > rearwheelhorse 02/10/2020 at 10:01

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The question was can it be done for less than $30k, the answer is yes.

There was no mention of safe, nor of swapping suspension and brake, just getting an LS under the hood and driving.